Make no compromises!

Swiss economist Prof. Monika Bütler grew up in a family configuration typical of the end of the last century: her father worked and her mother stayed at home with the children. It was clear to her that she did not want to give up her career in science for the sake of her family – nor should her family suffer due to professional obligations. Later, she even made the compatibility of career and family the subject of her research – with sobering results: especially for well-educated women, it is often not financially worthwhile in Switzerland to continue working a high volume – and even less so with a second child. In the conversation, she talks about her own experiences as a mother and professional, societal responsibility and why she sometimes feels sobered when discussing with young people.

You have two sons and an academically successful career, but you come from a family with a traditional division of roles. How has this influenced you?

My parents valued decency but allowed us many freedoms. My husband and I have also been very liberal in many ways regarding the upbringing of our now-adult children. My siblings and I grew up quite secluded, and contact with each other was very important – and still is. I never wanted an only child, and I wanted our house always to be open to other children. My mother took a relaxed approach to her assigned and unloved role as a housewife and therefore always had a bit of a guilty conscience. In this respect, I am very different from her; I am not ashamed if things are chaotic sometimes.

When you first became a mother, you were already on a successful academic path. Were you ever faced with the decision to choose one over the other?

I never asked myself that question; my professional independence and autonomy were always very important to me. For a long time, I did not know if I wanted children. The desire came later. And during a research stay in the USA, I experienced that it is a matter of course to have a career at the university and a family. It never occurred to me to give up my job.

You became a mother in the 2000s: what was it like then in Switzerland?

Back then, it was still rare for women to have both children and a career; mothers had to fight for it. In my environment, the recognition of this decision was somewhat limited. And sometimes there were discussions with my partner. It was always clear to me that we both had to engage equally, and neither had to step back more than the other. We managed that together. It was not easy for him either. We would have wished for good childcare options back then. At that time, there were still far too few in Switzerland. The childcare at the university took care of the children for a maximum of 3.5 days. My husband worked at the National Bank. Their childcare only took children whose mothers were employed at the bank. That was only 20 years ago. I am glad that things have changed since then.

How did you manage despite the challenging circumstances?

With a lot of organization, some chaos, patchwork, compromises and family support. Our recipe for success was a combination of nannies, childcare and collaboration with my single, also fully employed sister.

We divided the responsibilities: every day of the week, either she, my husband or I was responsible for the kids. I either had no child or three at once. If one became sick, the responsible person would cancel their appointments; the children were the priority. We had to make sacrifices in terms of household, order and especially leisure time, but it worked.

Is there anything you regret as a mother?

I would have liked to have had more time for my children and myself occasionally. But I do not feel guilty about it. Ultimately, every decision about the division of labor in the family and at work has its price. But there were of course also moments when I felt I was doing something wrong. In retrospect, I think that guilt is gender-specific. Women tend to feel it more than men. My partner was much better at ignoring concerns.

Were there professional situations where you felt disadvantaged because of your role as a mother?

It is an illusion to think that motherhood comes at no cost – even for those who work 100 %. My second son suffered from a severe case of meningitis as a baby, which was very demanding on us as parents, both psychologically and emotionally. This reflected on my academic CV and was promptly criticized in a project funded by the national research foundation. That was tough. As a scientist, publishing in high-profile journals is important. Research activities often suffer when you have small children. Hence, I focused much more on public appearances, which has paid off for me.

You have taught many young people at the university. Is this generation more emancipated than yours was?

I’m not always so sure about that. For my generation, it wasn’t a given to be able to reconcile family and career. We had to fight for compatibility, which still influences our thinking today. I sometimes miss this will to want to change something on one’s own. Society is too quickly seen as responsible for inequalities. Many young women still subordinate their career choice to the possibility of working part time later as a mother – thus already accommodating the role of the primary caregiver. Sometimes I also hear the argument that young women don’t want to work as hard as their mothers did. On the one hand, I understand this, but on the other hand, it also irritates me. Looking back, it was certainly exhausting, sometimes difficult; there were crises. But I wouldn’t have wanted it any other way. Of course, the outdated role models still exist. Young men are also exposed to these: the idea that they primarily should take on the role of the family breadwinner is not yet dispelled.

Has there been too little movement in Switzerland in this regard?

I see many young couples who are set up differently than twenty years ago. But there are also many where the division of roles is traditional – sometimes, however, with reversed signs when the father stays at home. Actually, it’s nice that we have this choice at all in Switzerland. No matter what the relationship constellation, the role of the partner is crucial. We talk too much about organizational matters in childcare. Much more important is that it occurs on an equal footing and is cooperative. I wish that couples would argue more about this.

You held your inaugural lecture on care work in 2005, which also dealt with the compatibility of family and career. The core message was: especially for well-educated women, it is not financially worthwhile in Switzerland to continue working a high volume with the first child – and even less so with the second. Does this finding still hold true today?

Quite a bit has changed here. Although there are still negative incentives, many cantons and municipalities have tried to at least minimize them – with subsidies, new structures and different pricing policies. The availability of childcare options has increased significantly, and allocation is simpler. Those who need a place today usually find one. However, it is still the case that the financial burden is very high, especially for younger, well-educated mothers and fathers. Every support system has its negative sides, including the much-praised Scandinavian one. The question is: have we come far enough? Probably not. There are still cases where the cost of childcare exceeds the income. At least for a few years.

According to your study, it was primarily well-educated women who gave up their careers. Is this still the case, given the improved offerings?

We still see that mothers rarely return to their professions full time, even when their children are older. That’s why the discussion about the extent and consequences of part-time employment is so important. Why is that? I don’t have an empirical answer. One factor is family taxation, which heavily taxes the second income. Another is certainly the ability to manage one’s own time in part-time work, which is difficult with a full-time position. In many professions, a longer absence makes re-entry difficult because the technical development is very dynamic. And generally, the longer a mother stays at home, the harder it is to return to work.

What would you advise young women?

Make smart compromises and don’t give up your professional goals too quickly in favor of the family! Children grow up fast, and the time of difficult compatibility is short in the grand scheme of life. Negotiate with your partner, even when...

“But of course, there were also moments when I felt I was doing something wrong. Looking back, I think that guilt is gender-specific. Women tend to feel it more than men. My partner was much better at ignoring concerns.”